Interviews 2008

Ambassador Milovanovic; ALFA TV - size 30.8MB

Alpha TV:  Ambassador Milovanovic, welcome to Alpha TV.  Today is practically the first working day of the new Government.  Do you have suggestions about what the priorities of Macedonia should be in the following period?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  First of all, thank you very much for inviting me.  It is a pleasure to be on your television channel.  Of course, first of all I want to congratulate the new government for taking its role.  I think the priorities are the obvious ones.  They are to move ahead with reforms, to continue to implement the Framework Agreement which has been a great success for Macedonia and of course in so doing also to bring greater economic prosperity to the country, pursue some of the economic reforms that are very important, the judicial reforms which any investor wants to see.  All of this is what needs to be done for Macedonia’s own progress and of course all of this is also a form of building blocks for NATO and the European Union, which ultimately is where Macedonia belongs.

Alpha TV:  There was a situation on Saturday, where a government was being elected without the presence of the opposition in Parliament.  What could in your opinion be the consequences of such a situation?
 
Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  I don’t know about what may come of that, but what I do think is that people voted for members of Parliament and when they voted for members of Parliament, they expect those MPs to be in Parliament.  Even if they are in a minority, even if they are in opposition.  They voted for those people because they believed in their ideas and they wanted to hear those people express their ideas in Parliament, which doesn’t mean they can’t express them elsewhere as well, within the confines of the law.  So, I think that the main issue is that it would be very good, and we certainly encourage the opposition to return to Parliament and make its voice heard in the committees and in the plenary sessions in Parliament.

Alpha TV:   One of the direct reasons for this move of the opposition was the arrest of a high functionary of the party and mayor of Strumica.  This was repeated yesterday with the 30-day detention measure.  Can you comment on such a practice of arresting functionaries?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  Well, of course, I don’t have any knowledge, nor would it be appropriate for me to discuss the actual case.  What I will say, though, is that I think that any of us who watch not just this episode but several others, and who see people being taken in front of the media with handcuffs on--despite the fact that it does not appear that this kind of thing is necessary--we worry about the possibility that the public, in looking at such photographs, will get the impression that these people are guilty before they have even been tried, in fact in some cases before they have even been indicted.  So, as a general rule, we would like to see a lot more low-key operation of the proper functioning of the law.  If they are someone who needs to be apprehended, that’s normal to take them wherever they need to go.  But to make it into what I would call a media circus--I don’t think it is contributing to the kind of atmosphere that you would want to have.  That’s whether it is a political official or anyone else.
 
Alpha TV:  The EU had remarks regarding the way the Parliament rulebook was passed, a procrastinated and long-disputed issue.  What is your opinion about such passing of, not just the rulebook, but other laws as well, without the presence of the opposition in Parliament?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  Well, obviously we would vastly prefer for the laws to be adopted with the presence of the opposition, with the comment of the opposition. What I think is important is that going ahead with the new Parliament, because after all those things were adopted by the old Parliament, that it be very clear that measures of urgency to adopt without discussion be very, very rare, as undoubtedly the law expects, and that if the opposition as we hope returns to Parliament, we will see good discussion in committees, good discussion in Parliament and very, very frugal use of the measure of urgency that allows you to adopt without discussion.
 
Alpha TV:   One of the priorities noted in the expose of Gruevski was solving the name issue with Greece.  Do you have any suggestions about how Macedonia should act in a situation where Athens does not seem to intend even to slightly alter its position?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  I think that Macedonia needs to look to its own interests and pursue a settlement.  I think it is unfortunate that it was not possible to arrive at this before the NATO Summit in Bucharest, but it is very important in our view to arrive at a solution in the next few months, well in advance of the December NATO ministerial.  There are proposals that certainly Macedonia should be able to put forward with Mr. Nimetz that would protect Macedonia’s concerns and still be things that could be negotiated with Greece, and that is certainly what we hope will be done in order to really solve the problem.  This is a golden opportunity to get it done.
 
Alpha TV:   The support of Washington for Macedonia’s NATO membership is indisputable.  That was clearly demonstrated in the last years and remains valid.  What is unclear is what happened at the Bucharest Summit--a great power practically succumbed to pressure from Greece.

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  Well, look, I was not in Bucharest and I was not in the meetings, so I can’t say.  What really matters is the United States is a very close friend and very much a partner with Macedonia.  We want to see you get in.  The fact that there was a setback that took place in Bucharest is not something that discourages the United States and it should not discourage Macedonia either.  Obviously, we would have preferred a different outcome, but I think it is important to bear in mind that 26 nations, including Greece, accepted that Macedonia had met the criteria, even if an invitation could not be issued at that time.  That was a huge success, and Macedonia now needs to go ahead and build on that, not lose any time, get that invitation by solving the last problem with Greece, and of course Greece must cooperate and help to solve the problem.

Alpha TV:  Were you surprised by the outcome of the Bucharest Summit?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  All of us hoped that this was going to be possible to solve and everyone, including I must say in an extraordinary manner, the President of the United States personally, and the Secretary of State personally, worked up until the last moment to achieve that end.  I think that you always go into something like this not totally convinced you can succeed because one never knows, but at the same time determined to succeed.  And, as I said, it was a partial success, 26 nations said you had met the criteria--that’s already huge.  Unfortunately, we couldn’t get the extra mile then but we continue to try to finish this off.
 
Alpha TV:  One more thing about Bucharest and we will round up this issue.  Did perhaps Macedonia make a mistake in its steps?  Is Macedonia perhaps in some way responsible for the outcome of the Bucharest Summit?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic: There’s a lot of discussion about who has been at fault and who has done the wrong thing, on that issue and many others.  I really think it matters to look to the future.  Obviously, we have to think about how things went in the past to do the right things in the future but the main thing is, there is still a negotiation, there are still opportunities to get this solved and it’s less a question of who did the wrong thing in the past, it’s who is going to do the right thing now.  That’s what we really want to see, because we are prepared to help those who want to do the right thing now and get this over with so Macedonia can move on.

Alpha TV:  Was it a good move that the negotiators opened another issue for Nimetz, the Aegean issue, as part of the name package?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic: Again, this is a UN negotiation.  It is under the leadership of Mr. Nimetz, so we, and certainly not I personally, are not directly involved.  What I believe is that no agreement is going to solve every single issue that exists or has ever existed between Greece and Macedonia.  The negotiation is intended to solve a specific issue, which is the question of the name, as written in the UN resolution.  I personally believe that a return to a focus on that particular problem is probably most likely to be successful.  If that is successful, many of these other issues, the problems that were raised that you mentioned, a number of other things that are of concern to Macedonians, and many that are of concern to Greece, can be resolved if you start first to deal with the name and then an atmosphere of confidence is built up in which everybody wants to solve the other things.

Alpha TV:  What do you think about this so-called “correspondence diplomacy”?  PM Gruevski wrote to his Greek colleague, then to Barosso, then to Ban Ki Moon.  Is this useful for the name process?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  Again, it is not so much my area of specialty, since I am not in the negotiations themselves.  I would say that on the whole, it is normal that a country, that a PM should express concerns where he sees them as national concerns and seeks to address them to those individuals that he believes are the right ones or the right organizations to help him with his concerns.  Whether it went to the right people or not, it’s up to them, the recipients of the letter to determine.  I think however, again, that a focus on actually resolving the principle issue which is the question of the name is most likely then to create an atmosphere in which a number of these issues, such as those raised in the letters, could be actually resolved. 

Alpha TV:  What is the position of Washington on something that is connected with what we previously discussed- the case of 70-year olds not being able to enter Greece--so I am talking about respect for basic human rights--as some of them are U.S. citizens?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  I have not been informed of any particular problems that were experienced by American citizens so I can’t really respond to that.  Obviously, again, these are matters that need to be worked out between Macedonia and Greece.

Alpha TV: In general, when a member of the European Union, of NATO, does not respect human rights?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  I am not in a position to determine who has done what things.  You are telling me something I don’t doubt you for a minute, but since I have not explored the question I do not have the information about it.  I think it would probably be wrong of me to answer in detail about something with which I am not sufficiently familiar.

Alpha TV:  Something that you certainly must know the details of is the process of the appointment of your successor at the Embassy in Skopje.  It seems that in some way this problem between Macedonia and Greece was carried over to the Senate, the lobby groups are working and in some way blocking his appointment.  Do you have an update on the issue?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  You have to understand that in our system, the Senate is the ultimate decider in the sense that they give advice and consent to a nomination.  It is normal in our process to have questions, sometimes rather strong questions, rather challenging questions, that are posed to the nominee and posed to the administration, and that is what is happening in the case of Mr. Reeker.  It is certainly not a unique situation and I believe that ultimately, those questions that the relevant senators have asked, will be answered in a manner which they will find acceptable.  I believe they ultimately they will give their advice and consent--certainly that’s my hope--and that you will ultimately have Mr. Reeker as my successor.
 
Alpha TV:  As an example, there was a case when for about four years the U.S. did not have an ambassador to Armenia.  What happens in the case of procrastination?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  It is a huge hypothetical that you are asking…

Alpha TV: But I have to ask…

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  All right, you have to ask, and you have asked, but the thing is, it is a hypothetical.  I don’t think that there is any reason to worry about what happens, and can we be four years without an Ambassador here.  What is likely to happen is that the answers which the senators are seeking will be given to them.  It is also the case that in the event that this takes a little bit of time, and in any case from the day that I leave, the number two of the American Embassy, Mr. Navratil will become the Charge d’ Affairs, which means he becomes the interim ambassador.  You will never be without the equivalent of a U.S. Ambassador.
 
Alpha TV:  All right, is it possible that with the disputing of Reeker another problem could surface, like a change in the stance of Washington, possibly regarding the constitutional name?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  I don’t think that the two are in the least bit related.  The issue of the recognition under the constitutional name is something that was done by the administration, the executive branch.  In the issue of Mr. Reeker, it is an issue of our legislative branch.  Those are two distinct parts of our government, as they are in yours, and the two are completely unrelated.  Our authorities have said repeatedly that we have recognized you under your constitutional name and we intend to continue in that manner.
 
Alpha TV:  The connection I made was that the same senators that dispute the appointment of Reeker, also write letter to Secretary Rice, requesting that the U.S. revise its stance on the name.  On another note, I would like to ask about the time you spent in Macedonia.  What will be remembered is that during your tenure the construction of the NEC on Kale started.  What will you remember Macedonia by?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  I will have many, many memories that are all extremely positive.  It is a wonderful country, great people, terrific food, I have gained weight.  You are filled with possibility.  You have got young people who are just wonderful.  One of the things that I will always remember is attending various graduations of universities, attending various secondary schools, and seeing the prize-giving, and the incredibly talented youth that you have.  That’s always going to stay with me as something hugely positive.  So I go away with very, very positive thoughts about Macedonia.  I am sorry that your path is not always as smooth and as direct as you would like to have it as a country, but you always make it in the end, and I am absolutely convinced that you will make it in the end.
 
Alpha TV:  Speaking about food, did you learn to prepare tavce-gravce?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic: To some degree, yes.  I now know that you can’t make it unless you have the beans from Tetovo.
 
Alpha TV:  Is there a politician from Macedonia that you will remember, with whom you have had the best cooperation?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  I have had excellent relations with all kinds of politicians, from the smallest parties to the largest, because there has been a really open dialogue and I don’t really think I can single out any particular person, and this goes from the previous government, the current government.  I think everyone has recognized that even if they may have differences of opinion or differences of policy with the United States, the U.S. really is a true friend of Macedonia, and whereas friends can discuss and differ, ultimately they are friends and they are collaborators.  I have had the same kinds of excellent relations with people from SDSM as from VMRO and the other parties.

Alpha TV:  I asked you about the pleasant memories; I will also ask you about critical moments during your mandate?

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic: Well, obviously there was the disappointment that it was not possible to get the invitation fully agreed at NATO.  That was a disappointment.  And of course we had some difficult times in the campaign just now in 2008, in the first round of elections that were also a disappointment because of the way in which they were conducted.  At the same time, again, Macedonia has its struggles and then it pulls itself out and I believe that you have the capacity to move on.  I’ll say the one thing that, just as I mentioned that you have great young people, one thing that I do find saddening is that so many of them don’t find opportunities and are not supported by the society.  Kids who have tremendous talent, who need scholarships, who need support to continue their studies, who need internships, who need a chance at jobs.  That’s something that I think will also stay with me--that there’s a huge need to support your talented youth.
 
Alpha TV:   The public would like to hear where Gillian Milovanovic is to continue her career.

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  As far as I know, I will be the next U.S. Ambassador to Mali, in West Africa.  So I will be trading in Macedonia, for Mali- there seems to be something about countries starting with MA.  And of course though I leave here with a certain amount of regret, I know I will come back and visit--and I look forward to the next assignment, which will be a new challenge.
 
Alpha TV:  Thank you for the interview.  All of the young people that you mentioned in your answers invite you to come back to Macedonia.  Thank you

Ambassador Gillian Milovanovic:  Thank you very much. It has been a pleasure. 

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