Interviews 2008

U.S. Ambassador Philip T. Reeker speaks with Kanal 77 Radio

November 22, 2008

How do you feel today?  Was it a hard working day, or as a day before the weekend you had some more free time?

I work hard every day in the Embassy.  It is good that I can have some rest during the weekend with my wife and be better off for the Monday. 

How do you feel after the incident in Amica restaurant where you had dinner with former FM Ilinka Mitreva?  Did this event recall times when the US Embassy in Skopje was set on fire? 

Nobody likes to have their dinner interrupted by a fire or any other kind of incident.  It was certainly a moment for concern, but you know my wife and I spent one year in Baghdad and we had a lot of training for those kind of incidents.  I look back on the incident and I am glad that nobody was seriously injured and am very proud of how my security team reacted.  I have the best security I think I could have anywhere in the world.   They are a terrific group and I was pleased that we could continue our dinner in another restaurant.  A chance to catch up with my good friend Ilinka and her husband Ilija.  Coming back to Skopje, obviously I and my friends are a bit older, 10 years older, of course none of us looks older.   I guess I have less hair than I had then, but it’s fun to be back after a long time away.  Skopje has certainly grown and modernized in some ways.  Otherwiise the country is very much the same.  So, when I saw my old friends, I did what old friends do everywhere—we caught up on what we’d been doing for the past decade.  I was also so happy and proud to introduce them to my wife, Solveig.  It is great to be back in Macedonia.  I think people are people everywhere, and Macedonians are an extraordinarily good-hearted people in general.  That’s one of the reasons people at our Embassy, including myself, enjoy living and working here so much.

Congratulations for the victory of Barack Obama at the US Presidential elections.  More than clear is the global message sent by his elections, which we hope will not remain a single precedent, that a minority representative can win a race?  Now I see many media in Europe analyze whether “Obama can happen in Europe?” “Can French with Arab origin or a German with Turkish origin become president?”  Finally, can an ethnic Macedonian support an ethnic Albanian and vice versa in this country?  Can character and quality of programs determine voting rather than the ethnic background?

Why not.  I think one of the wonderful benefits of the election of soon-to-be-President Obama is, as you say, that people all around the world are asking that very same question. A year ago many people still questioned whether the United States could elect an African American to be our president.  We’ve done that.  You can see now, in the 21^st century, people in democracies elect officials based on merit, without regard to ethnicity or what background, but based upon what they believe that person will do for the country.  And I think it is a great opportunity to think about how we choose our leaders.  Perhaps we should focus on individuals, on their experience, on what they offer, what they say individually in their campaign, and not even necessarily on a party basis. 

There will be changes in the US administration when President Elect Obama takes office.  How is it in the US, do people fear for their jobs as they fear here whenever a new government takes over?  Will there be party movements down to the level of guards, as it is here? 

In the U.S. the vast majority of people in government keep their jobs when a new Federal government takes over.  That’s because the majority of our civil servants and that includes our diplomats, our foreign service, are career civil servants, they are professionals and they have made their careers one of service to country, working for the Government.  There are actually very few political appointees throughout the U.S. government.  Obviously a new president brings certain number of personal appointees, many of them have to be approved by the US Senate, but the vast majority of our colleagues in government remain in place.  So, people like myself, as a professional career diplomat, continue in my current job.  Around the world one third of our ambassadors are political appointees who may be friends of the president, or have particular experiences or connections, they can often be very useful.  They will be replaced in due course and I suspect that the new president will also have some personal appointees that he wants to make ambassadors in certain countries around the world.  But it’s not political affiliation that chooses people’s positions in government.  We have a strong and continuous civil service and that leads to stability and continuity in our government service. 

What are you, a Democrat or Republican?  Who was your favorite, if I may ask, Obama or McCain?

To be honest, I do not belong to a political party.  In our country, one’s political affiliation is usually considered a private matter.  I have worked for Democrats and I have worked for Republicans.  I was deputy spokesman for Madeleine Albright and for Colin Powell, for a Democrat and for a Republican, for President Clinton and for President Bush.  And I will now stay in office with President Obama. 

Many US Ambassadors, particularly those to the Balkan countries, remain in the countries to start their own businesses.  For example, William Montgomery is said to run a joint company with a former advisor to Kostunica; Michael Einik was in Macedonia and as far as I know he had business in Romania and is still in the region; they also by real estate.  Are you planning to buy something here in Macedonia or start a business after your term of office expires?

Are you offering something Stole? 

Something in Ohrid.

That would be lovely, but no.  My wife and I own an apartment in Washington, we also have some property in the State of Minnesota, where my wife comes from, and we own some property with my brother, who has a ranch in the State of Oregon.   We both like Macedonia very much, but we have no plans to purchase any property here.

What is your wife by profession, also a diplomat or?

She is also a diplomat.  She is not working now in the Embassy, but she is also a diplomat and was working in another office at our Embassy in Baghdad before we came to Skopje.

It seems we are gradually forgetting about Kosovo and Macedonia is getting in the focus because of the name issue.  Will the application before the ICJ delay the name talks indefinitely or will it speed up the process?  What do you think?  I would also like to ask something that may be called conspiracy theory, but is being talked about here.  Are charges against Greece a part of an American plan for resolving the name dispute?  This is what Greek media speculate interpreting it as a form of pressure on Greece (it is indicative that the Macedonian application followed immediately after Gruevski’s return from the US).  Kind of win-win tactic, which is US specialty. 

Look, absolutely not was there an American involvement in the decision to make an application before the International Court of Justice.  It was a matter for Macedonia to decide and Macedonia’s Government made that decision.  I’m glad that you think that the U.S. specializes in “win-win” outcomes, but this was a decision of the Government of Macedonia alone.  As I’ve said many times before we want the focus to be on resolving the name issue as soon as possible, so that Macedonia can enter NATO.  That means we believe continuing to stay engaged in the process at the UN led by Ambassador Nimetz to try to find a resolution to this question.  A resolution would be a win-win situation for this.  There is no US plan and indeed, Macedonian officials have to make their own decisions in this regard.  We believe that Macedonia’s membership in NATO would be best not only for Macedonia, but for the whole region and that includes Greece as well.  So we will hope that there will be a resolution to this and Macedonia can enter NATO.  Everyone in the country has worked very hard toward this goal for more than a decade and I think they deserve the stability and security that NATO offers and the prosperity that full integration into the Euro-Atlantic community will bring to this country.

So, there is no other plan of the Bush administration for solving the name issue before they leave?  There is the NATO Ministerial in December.  What can be saved [done] in this short time?

As I’ve said many times, there is no U.S. plan.  The hope has been and continues to be since the Bucharest Summit and the disappointment in April that the two sides will work together seriously to make the difficult decisions required, to show the leadership necessary to find a resolution that both Greece and Macedonia can live with and to do that as quickly as possible.  So, we continue to urge both Macedonia and Greece to find a solution before the NATO meeting in December.  It’s still possible, it’s not too late.  This is something that is not easy for either side, but I believe, as I said, it’s something that is important for Macedonia that Macedonia and all its citizens deserve and have worked hard for and I hope very much to see Macedonia join NATO as soon as possible.

There is something unclear to me and the Macedonian public.  How was it possible that three times President Bush put his reputation at stake by claiming that Macedonia will join NATO together with Croatia and Albania?  And we all know what happened in Bucharest thanks to the Greeks.   Was it a matter of wrong assessment or the Greeks did not keep their promise?  There is this story in the political circles (governmental and the Turkish community):  Turkish PM Erdogan reportedly was determined to block the admission of all three Adriatic Group countries if Greece was to veto Macedonia, but President Bush reportedly changed Erdogan’s mind in the last moment with an explanation that a deal was made with Greece and there was no problem for Macedonia.

Obviously I was not in Bucharest at the time of the Bucharest Summit.  I was working in the International Zone in Baghdad, in Iraq, in our Embassy there.  But I think it is clear to everybody that President George W. Bush cares very deeply for Macedonia and about stability for the Balkans.  I think you’re right, he tried very, very hard, as many people did in Bucharest, to secure Macedonia’s entry into NATO.  In the end of the Summit, obviously it was not possible, yet there was consensus that Macedonia had met the criteria and should be admitted into NATO, should be given an invitation as soon as this so-called name issue was resolved.  NATO is an organization that runs by consensus, that has been the way it has always operated and that is one of the reasons that it is a very successful Alliance.  So, Greece had the power to block Macedonia’s entrance.  How NATO works is something that cannot be changed, but I don’t think it is worth focusing on conspiracy theories or rumors or ideas.  The point is that we should take action now to find a resolution to this name issue so that we can move ahead and think about what is truly important for Macedonia’s future and future of all its citizens.

What will happen to the name negotiations?  DAS Fried in Washington sent an unusually sharp message through a group of Macedonian journalists that Macedonia should either accept this proposal of Nimetz or face isolation.  He even said they may be sorry after 10 years.  Will the US foreign policy change with Obama’s administration?  Recently, I read Lawrence Eagleburger saying that Obama will also love Macedonia.  However, one cannot ignore Obama’s campaign statements and his close ties with the Greek lobby groups in the US.   Also, US Ambassador to Athens Speckhard very directly said we will not put pressure, it is your problem, resolve it on your own.

First of all, let me say that I know Ambassador Speckhard very well, in fact we worked together at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad for some time.  So, he is my friend and my colleague and obviously he works with contacts on the Government of Greece, as I work with the Government of Macedonia and contacts here.  I never heard statements from President Elect Obama’s campaign that were really any different from the positions that the United States government has always held.  And I believe very strongly, as I’ve said many times, that the United States will continue its strong partnership and friendship and support for Macedonia.  Because that support, including Macedonia’s entrance into NATO as a full member and ally is what’s in the best interest of Macedonia, of the region, of Europe, of the Alliance and of course best interest of the United States.  So, I think there should be less focus on Greece and more focus on your own interests, on Macedonia’s interest.  The new administration will want to see a resolution to this problem because that’s what best for all of us.  So, I really think it would be better for everybody to spend more time thinking about what is in Macedonia’s interest and less time worrying about Greece.

Was the timing good for economic promotion of Macedonia in the US?  The opposition claims that US investors are affected by the financial crisis so much that they cannot invest abroad?

As I’ve said many times, the goal of the Macedonian delegation and the business forums that took place in San Francisco and Chicago was to introduce Macedonia to prospective investors, businessmen and women and people who might be interested in doing business with Macedonia.  There is always an opportunity to introduce the country even during times when the difficult economy makes immediate action difficult.  Smart companies, those companies with a good outline, including those in the information technology sector, are looking ahead, they are looking for a time after this current economic and financial crisis and thinking about where they might expand, where they find opportunities for business, for joint ventures, for Greenfield investments.  That’s why I think it was very useful and why I was happy to accept the invitation of the Macedonian Embassy in Washington to join with the group and talk about opportunities in Macedonia from our perspective, from the U.S. perspective.  Obviously, we believe there are opportunities for American business to be successful here.  In the 21^st century business, investment, commerce is a global operation.  We have a global market and so, American companies being successful here is good for America and good for Macedonia.  The meetings that we had, that your Prime Minister and his delegation had in the United States were a good opportunity to introduce Macedonia.  Now we are looking forward to following up with a number of companies who expressed interest and I expect we’ll see them continue conversations and discussions and to look at opportunities here.  That follow-up is very important and I think is good for all Macedonians to think about how they present their country to potential foreign investors.  A country that is stable, forward looking and ready to fully embrace the 21^st century, is a place that indeed will attract investors not only from the United States but from all around the world.

Don’t you feel you were abused in daily-political games? The opposition attacked the Road Show, while the government responded quoting your statement?

Let me just play one of my favorite songs, which I think maybe answers my reaction to that question.

Mamma Mia

Why didn’t the PM meet with any high representative of the U.S. administration?  How do we read (understand) that- that they gave up on us and we are already in silent isolation due to our stubbornness, or is all that part of the game?  Once again we go back to the conspiracy theory.  The impression is you have a strange relation with Gruevski.  He held early elections, he is suing Greece, he is a hardliner regarding the negotiations and you (in plural) continue to be mild.  You, as a U.S. administration were not like that in the past.  Not with Ljubco Georgievski or any other politician from the region who goes against you.  Again the conclusion may be: all that the Macedonian government is doing is not because it is so courageous and it spites the West, but because it is part of the U.S.-led game to discipline Greece, and the aim of which has a wider context.  Was it that difficult to convince Gruevski not to go with the early elections which were violent and ended with one death?
               
Look Stole, there you go again with a long and complicated conspiracy theory, the time it takes to think up these complicated scenarios.  I think it’s very simple and easy to say that the trip that the Macedonian delegation took to the United States was not focused on official meetings.  We had plenty of official contacts.  As you know, Secretary of Defense Gates was here less than two months ago, he met with the Prime Minister and the President and of course, with the Minister of Defense; our Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Stuart Jones was here very recently, and the Director of the State Department’s Office of South-Central Europe, that is, the Balkan Office, Jason Hyland - another colleague of mine from Baghdad – he was here just last week.  We have phone calls, we have e-mails, so we have plenty of opportunity to keep in touch. 

The Prime Minister and his delegation did not visit Washington, D.C.  They visited San Francisco, Silicon Valley and Chicago with the purpose of meeting potential investors, businessmen, members of the Macedonian Diaspora and those meetings were successful.  So, there was no purpose, no request to meet U.S. officials.  We are in a middle of a transition.  We have just had our election and it would have made no sense to have had official meetings.  We don’t have meetings just to have meetings.  Instead, the delegation had meetings with presidents, like presidents of  companies, the president of Oracle Computers, the chairman of Sun Microsystems, senior executives with Intel and Hewlett Packard, companies like Boeing represented at the business forum in Chicago.  So, that’s what this trip was about and I really think our relations will continue to be strong, our Embassy has good contacts on a daily basis with a whole range of official Macedonian Government contacts as well as opposition contacts, and of course those in the media and other parts of Macedonian civil society.  Those in Washington feel that they have excellent contacts as well.  As a new administration comes into place and takes office I am sure will be pursuing opportunities for our new colleagues to meet with Macedonian officials at the appropriate time.

Isn’t there a need for self-criticism of the diplomatic corps in Macedonia, the international representatives, regarding the incidents and problems that occurred during the elections?  It is clear that our politicians are most obedient when they get a recommendation, not to say an order from Americans and Europeans.  There were other measures of discipline that you could have used.  Isolation of leaders and politicians, pressure on Parliament to pass a law with which all that cause incidents would be demonized and excluded from politics.  Why are there elections without incidents in Kosovo but not in Macedonia?

Well, of course that I was not here when you conducted your elections in June. I was in Baghdad, but I know that OSCE and ODIHR conducted extremely professional observation mission.  In fact, a number of my new colleagues in the Embassy now participated as observers.  ODIHR has made a number of recommendations, which we support, which give Macedonian authorities a roadmap for reforms and steps that can be taken to ensure that the irregularities that took place in June do not reoccur.  We’ll all be watching closely when the next elections occur, that is the presidential and local elections on March 29.  The responsibility for this rests with the government and the leadership of Macedonia and frankly, with all the citizens of Macedonia to carry out elections that meet the commitments that Macedonia has made.  I think you have recommendations, as I said, you have reports, including the report of the European Union.  They can be used as guidelines to help you implement measures necessary and to show the world that indeed, Macedonia can carry out well-run, transparent, fair and free elections.  That’s certainly what I will expect as we go into this next election period and work towards positive election at the end of March.

Ambassador Reeker speaks Macedonian.  Was it difficult to learn the language?  How concerned are you personally when the issue of the Macedonian language and identity is raised in the dispute with Greece.  Can you put yourself in our position and say what would be the red line for the Macedonian people?

Yes, I speak Macedonian.  I learned Macedonian and I will always say that I speak Macedonian.  Look, nobody can make you accept what you feel you cannot accept.  But, I think it’s important to think about what really makes a difference in your lives, in the lives of your children and your grandchildren.  You are always going to speak your language, Macedonian.  But, think about what is truly important to you, how you can have a more safe, prosperous life.  I have a great respect for history, for the history of Macedonia, for the citizens of this country and I think when it comes to this issue of language and identity, you need to have confidence in who you are and who you will always be.  Let me quote something that Eleanor Roosevelt said, I think one of the greatest women of the 20^th century.  She said that no one can humiliate you without your consent.  I think you have to think about that.  Dignity and pride are not the same thing.  I think that all the people of Macedonia should be proud of what this country has accomplished as an independent nation in just 17 years.  But even more so you should think about what you can accomplish together in the future moving forward with transatlantic integration that you have sought for so long.  I think there is a solution there.  I just think it takes courage, it takes leadership and it takes everybody thinking about what is truly important in your lives.  And so, I will speak Macedonian always.  Hard for me, but I think while all of you will continue to speak this language and be proud of that you have an opportunity to make the world see what you really stand for and to think about what really is important and to pursue better, more prosperous and comfortable lives for yourselves, but most importantly for your children and grandchildren.

You have an ancient name.  Do you have a problem when you meet with Greeks?  For you as an American, are these historical atavisms that keep creating problems in the Balkans, understandable?  Somebody might say, America is a young country and does not understand that, as it actually does not have history.  But that surely is not the case--it has natives, it went through a civil war, had federalists and confederalists.  How do you reconcile nationally and what would your message for Macedonia and the Balkans be, as the region obviously produces more history than it can accommodate?

Well, before we start a new conspiracy theory I just want to assure you that when my parents named me Philip, I don’t think they had any idea that I would one day become U.S. Ambassador to Macedonia.  They merely liked the name.  No, it causes no problems that I know of with Greeks. I am very proud to be an American.  Indeed, by some measures, my country, the United States of America has a relatively short history, although you have to realize that we have been an independent country now for 233 years.  That’s a long time by comparison to some other countries.  And obviously America, the land in which my country is now situated, that became the United States of America, has much much longer and rich history.  Lots of countries have long histories.  The point is to be proud of that history and to use that history and the lessons from it to decide how to move forward into the future.  As we look to what’s happening in America these days with a new president, the first African American to be elected to the United States presidency we realize that some things that were once thought to be out of the question and unthinkable can happen.  When I look at the history of the Balkans, I see a rich, complex history.  But we should also think about things that were once thought to be impossible.  And here we have an independent Macedonia, a fine country that belongs in Europe and in the institutions that make up Europe – the European Union and the North Atlantic, Trans Atlantic, institutions like NATO.  So, history isn’t so gloomy that you have to stay mired in it forever.  Use your history to be proud of it, but think about what you want to change and how you want to move into the future for a better life, for more comfortable standard of living for all of your citizens.  I think they all deserve it.  

It would have been even more interesting if the U.S. has appointed an ambassador to Macedonia with the name of Alexander.

We’ll save that for the future.

Let’s finish by talking about your music selection.   I see here 80-90% of the selection is movie soundtracks.  Are you a great movie fan? 

Just like many Americans, I love movies.  To me, Star Wars is perhaps my favorite movie.  I remember when I was young and when I watched Star Wars for the first time, it was unbelievable.  This is the best movie of my youth.  John Williams’ music is fantastic.  The film changed the world and certainly changed popular culture.   We owe a lot to George Lucas and his film but also to John Williams and the inspiring soundtrack he wrote for Star Wars.

You also have A Room with a View.

Yes, A Room with a View is maybe my most favorite movie after Star Wars.  I think Puccini’s music, more precisely his aria from Gianni Schicchi, is very beautiful.  My wife and I watch the movie maybe two times every year.

Then, you have Kiss me Kate, Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong, Brian Ferry, Robbie Williams.

Kiss me Kate, Too Damn Hot, in is an example, an amazing musical that is a classic of the American stage.  This is an American tradition, the musical theatre.  The lyrics are quite remarkable and really one of my favorites.  Col Porter, who wrote the musical, the music and the lyrics, was a graduate of Yale University where I also graduated, although many years later.  It’s always been one of my favorite songs and I think perhaps appropriate for much of my work.  Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong are classics, Sweet Romance is a wonderful song, and of course Natalie Cole, Unforgettable is also a classic.  Using modern technology so that Natalie Cole and her beautiful voice could sing with her father, Nat King Cole, who was a pioneer of his time as an African American and a jazz singer with a voice that remains unique to this day.

There is an interesting theme from “Before the Rain” of Milco Mancevski.  Do you know Milco personally?

Milce I consider a friend.  I’ve met with him in New York and I look forward to seeing him here in Skopje when he visits as well.  Before the Rain is my favorite foreign movie.  For me of course, a Macedonian film is a foreign film.  I had watched it before I first came to Macedonia.  It was my introduction to Macedonia.  It’s a beautiful film, it’s a remarkable film and has won of course many awards.  But like Star Wars where John Williams amazing score is part of what made the film, the music by Anastasia in Before the Rain is also very much part of the film and I think Milco Mancevski understood the absolute importance of the music and soundtrack and it’s something that I listen to very frequently.  He has a remarkable talent which of course has of course been recognized worldwide and I think he is one of Macedonia’s greatest exports.

Let’s close with Macedonia. Have you seen the whole country?  Is there a place you have not yet visited and are planning to visit.  Which places have left the biggest impression on you?

You know, I’ve been here now about two months and I’ve had an opportunity already to visit Ohrid on three occasions, to go to Prilep, to Bitola to see Heraklea, to go to Tetovo, I’ll be back in Tetovo this week.  There are still a lot of places to go.  I hope I can keep up this very active pace because there is so much to see in Macedonia.  It is a strikingly beautiful country and I look forward to showing my wife many of places I’ve been before, like Galicnik and to seeing places that I did not get to when I served here in the 1990s.  I really hope to have a chance to visit other cities, but also villages and parts of the countryside because this opportunity to be back in Macedonia as the U.S. Ambassador is a unique opportunity to experience geography and culture that I will always remember for the rest of my life.