Interviews 2009

Amb.  Philip T. Reeker

Reflecting on 10 years of Kapital 
Ambassador Philip T. Reeker interview with KAPITAL

September 17, 2009

Transcript of the Interview 

Q: Ambassador, let’s start with your perception about Macedonia. You are here again after several years as an Ambassador, and you were here as a diplomat also…

A: I think it is clear in the past 10 years Macedonia has been moving towards its destiny, its role as a part of Europe, a Europe that is whole, free and at peace, which has been the goal of the United States since WWII.  So, that is good news, and I followed Macedonia’s development in that regard.

On the other hand, I have to say that, honestly, coming back here after not visiting from when I departed in July 1999, I was surprised to see how little things have changed in Skopje. In the near decade since I left, there is a lot that has not changed in Macedonia. I realize that reform can be slow and difficult process, but I think a lot of us agree that there should have been more progress by now. By that I mean particularly the political environment that pervades everything in Macedonia, and that to me more than anything else is the politics of blame.   One group blaming another group; then that group blaming the first group, and it goes back and forth. This creates a constant environment of political polarization, where politics seems to be paramount to everything in the society, and where political parties attempt to dominate the dialogue and the discourse.

That is the reality that I found coming back here. That is something we have to deal with, but most importantly that is something that Macedonia has to deal with – the citizens of this country, the society has to deal with it and decide what their future course is going to be, and when they are ready to change that dynamic and put an end to the politics of blame.  That will be how the country and society move forward. The United States will continue to support Macedonia in terms of development and reform.

But democracy is a tough thing, democracy is not easy, it requires a certain amount of thought, preparation and decision-making. In a democracy, debate is a breath of life, which is something that President Eisenhower wrote when he left the office. We have to be aware of the danger, as he put it, imposed by those who seek to be free from the burden of democracy, the mental stress and burden of democracy. That is something that everybody in the society can think about.

Q: Do you see bigger will for development of democracy now?

A: I think that is hard to say. As I said, every society develops at its own pace. Macedonia has certainly faced many challenges, and that is where the United States, as a friend and partner has tried to help, tried to support the development of civil society as being key to a democracy. I think that is really a question that the citizens of Macedonia should ask themselves, how they see the situation in ten years and beyond. There is an awful lot of political debate and focus on parties.

Q: We have the name dispute, and significant diplomatic activity has been going on.  What do you see as the cost of this dispute? 

A: When you talk about the cost I think Macedonia has already paid the high cost for not resolving this issue. Greece is paying a cost as well. The fact that this issue has gone on for so long has costs involved with it. Resolving the issue and building a closer bilateral relationship between neighbors is going to benefit citizens of both countries. There is not a down side to resolving this situation. We strongly believe that it would be best to put this matter to rest, so that we can focus on the strong business relationships, the people-to-people relationships that occur between two neighboring countries. Look at the travel between the two countries for tourism and business.  That is a fact. As I said to the members of the United States Senate at my confirmation hearing over a year ago, my experience is that there are very strong economic and business ties, as well as people-to-people ties between Greece and Macedonia – and those will endure.  That should be the goal of all sides. Obviously, we recognize that no solution is possible without serious leadership and a vision from both governments.

Q: If we analyze the position of the government, what do you see as possible for the future?

A: I think it is very difficult to predict the future, particularly for a problem that has gone on for too long, so it is hard to say exactly when the dispute will be resolved. Our view has been that it needs to be resolved as soon as possible and it remains no question in my mind and in the minds of the leadership of the United States that a reasonable resolution to this problem will benefit both countries.

Q: Do you have a message for Macedonian politicians regarding this name dispute?

A: The position that I took under instruction from my government – and that has remained constant from the Bush administration to the Obama administration – is to intensify engagement, to work to create a best possible atmosphere in which to address the problem and to conduct a serious negotiation. I think respecting confidentiality of the process is important, and I have urged that and we continue to urge all of the leaders of both sides of the dispute to commit themselves to securing the best possible future for all their citizens.

Q: Are they aware of the real costs that occur from not resolving this dispute?

A: I think you cannot help but see the cost. If this problem had been put behind us in the eighteen years of Macedonian history, Macedonia would be in a different place and we would not be focusing on these questions in this interview. Again, my philosophy, just as it is reflected in US policy, is to set a goal and then work to that goal. Develop a strategy that helps you attain that goal, and focus on that, and that is what I hope leaders on both sides will do. There is a seriousness of purpose in the process which is facilitated by the United Nations and Ambassador Nimitz that will lead us to see a solution.

The goal of Macedonia, as reflected in statements from the leadership and certainly in the public opinion polls of the population, is to become a member of NATO and EU.  I think you should also think about the status of the reforms, what you’re doing as you work towards NATO and EU membership. Because, while membership is the goal, the process and what you are doing to attain that goal and how you are doing it, is very important. The reforms that have been undertaken in Macedonia since independence and in pursuit of the Euro-Atlantic integration are good and important in and of themselves. Obviously, resolving the name issue remains an important obstacle, but Macedonia’s success in reform and in improvements in areas like economic development and in the judicial sphere should never be overlooked.

The best future of Macedonia is at the table, at the North-Atlantic council, as a full member of NATO, and a member of the European Union – that remains clear in our mind. But continuing the reforms necessary to achieve those goals will make this country a better place to live, a better place to visit, a better place in which to do business, and I think it will raise the standard of living for all the citizens of this country now and for the future generations to come. Those are worthy goals and I think the society as a whole should continue working towards that. Our assistance programs have been targeted toward helping Macedonia reach those goals. We cannot reach them for you.  We cannot solve your problems.  But the goal of our assistance is, in terms of the financial contributions we make towards attaining reforms required in decentralization and in competitiveness, those are reforms that are good for Macedonia.

Q: Do you think Macedonia is moving towards isolation and stagnation?

A: No, I do not think Macedonia is moving towards isolation and stagnation. There is a need to focus continually towards a broader world view. I think every country has its own circumstances – and drawing comparisons is not always helpful. When we do, it is useful to do so in terms of learning from those examples.  How have other countries in transition, particularly those in a post-communist era, developed?  What have they done? Where have they made mistakes? What might they do differently? So I think there is an opportunity to looks at those, to seek advice of what other countries or other societies have gone through and to apply that to your own situation. Obviously, the active diplomacy of President Ivanov has done a lot to reach out to other countries in a very short period of time. I know he will continue to do that. He has travelled to other capitals, and that is important too. The Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister do so as well and I think you have seen the results from the hard work involved in reaching out and in implementing reforms, for example the EU decision on visa liberalization. Certainly the Government, I believe, will continue to work towards that end.  As the 21^st century is all about being interconnected , one cannot prosper without integrating closely with neighbors and with the broader region.

Q: Some of the parties are asking for a new Framework Agreement.  Do you think Macedonia’s multiethnic population presents a problem?

A: On the contrary, I think Macedonia’s multiethnic character is its greatest strength. I have said that many times before, as have others in the international community. I am not sure if all the citizens in this country recognize that. It is a strength and an opportunity for progress as it has been and remains in the United States.

Why has the United States succeeded? Because we have taken advantage of our multiethnic, multi-faceted society, where we have focused less on our differences and more on what unites us. It does not mean it has been easy. The history of race relations in the United States and the civil rights movement  over 230 years of independence has been highly complex;  and to this very day it is not easy.  It takes dialogue.  It takes constant discussion.

It would be absolutely a mistake to allow your diversity and your multiethnic character to be an obstacle. It really is a strategic and a commercial advantage. It is important that Macedonian leaders help citizens maximize this natural asset that you have, to attract investment by highlighting the diversity and the different backgrounds that your labor force provides, the different skills, the different language capabilities. It creates business opportunities; it makes Macedonia a natural hub for the wider region. It is what Europe is all about in terms of a united European Union – the  diversity, the different resources of Europe, and respecting all of those different cultures as a force for a better life, for greater prosperity of all the citizens of Europe. That is something that we learned in the United States, I think Europe has learned that, and I think in Macedonia, that is what all of the citizens here should focus on.

The Ohrid Framework Agreement is an excellent tool. It gives Macedonia a framework, exactly what it is called, to deal with these challenges, because differences are not only strengths and opportunities, but they are also challenges. Similarly, in the United States we have used our own legal frameworks, our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution, to provide guidance when we found they were not being implemented in full spirit.  We used those acts and laws, like our civil rights legislation, to make all of our citizens more comfortable, to make them all feel secure and a part of our country. And that indeed has been a great strength for the United States. The Ohrid Framework Agreement is something which the United States and the European Union have both signed on to. It was agreed to by the parties in Macedonia to be used as a framework – and the international community, through the United States and the European Union, backed that up. That is what we continue to focus on – full implementation of the Ohrid Agreement.  As I often say, in fact and in spirit as well, use it as a framework. There is no need for a new additional framework that will cloud the dialogue.

Q: How do you see the process of implementation of this Agreement?

A: We celebrated recently the eighth anniversary of the Ohrid Framework Agreement. We said a lot has been accomplished through that Agreement. Think about 2001 and where Macedonia was at that time and where things might have gone. Ohrid has been very important and we have seen a lot of legislation enacted. Legislation is just that – it is a matter of developing a spirit where everyone agrees that they want to work toward progress.  We have seen that in the United States and we have done that as a society.  We have totally changed our approach in terms of race relations, in terms of our own diversity and multicultural experience over the last four decades. So this takes time, indeed, and there is always more work to do. There is always a need for dialogue and review. I think all citizens of this country should be thankful that you have a Constitution and a framework agreement that was agreed to in Ohrid that helps guide you in that process.

Q: How much the fact that Macedonia is not a NATO member and that we have problems on our road to the EU, the reasons are now not important - can be an alibi for some forces in Macedonia, who hint at a new framework agreement, that starts a political process for that – can be a reason for destabilization within the interethnic relations, having in mind that Albania is a member of NATO, and Kosovo is an independent country.           

A: This recalls the old fable about the glass half full or half empty. One can always try to looks to a dark side and always try to find a reason to go backwards. What I advocate is using things we have just discussed, the tools you have.  Do what you know is better for all of you, for all the citizens of this country and – even more importantly for your children and grandchildren – to have better lives.  I think that is what needs to be focused on, not on the possibilities of what-ifs. I think people here spend too much time focusing on what-ifs, worrying about possible situations, scenarios and conspiracies. If they took the time and energy that they spend doing that, and focus on actually implementing and trying to achieve their goals, I think we might be further along. So that is what we continue to advocate.

I think we have seen this in the United States too. You can always come up with dark scenarios. Let’s focus on achieving what we want by using the tools at hand. It does not mean that it is easy, as I said many times, it takes an effort. I am quoting President Eisenhower again, “ Do not work to try to isolate yourself from the pressures of a free society.”  And a free society does make pressures. Democracy leaves you with certain burdens and stresses because you have to practice it. Rather than resorting to statements that are distinguished by stridency, let’s focus on statements and actions that reflect accurately and positively the direction that the country wants to go.

Q: How are you evaluating the work of this government? Yesterday we saw the Doing Business report.

A: I arrived back to Macedonia at a time that was already a difficult time economically in my country, the United States, and all around the world. Macedonia has clearly been affected by the global recession. I believe that the government is committed to taking steps to improve the business climate. I have invested personally, with my team at the Embassy, and additional resources of the US Government to try to support that. But, of course, more needs to be done, more always needs to be done. Business people need to see clear rules and predictability, that is a very important part of it. That is something I learned at business school when I was getting an MBA. But I think it is something ever more important in the global environment. Predictability, so that you can anticipate the cost of doing business, know that the property and the contract rights are going to be enforceable before impartial, free, fair and transparent court systems.

Frankly, as we have discussed before, there have been too many instances where a business has been subjected to capricious actions, either by the government or by other businesses.  That has given some potential investors pause. Corruption certainly stains Macedonia’s reputation. Macedonia is not alone in that, many countries face that. That is something that continues to be a problem, and is something that should be focused on. The recent record on Government tenders, for instance, where follow through has not been as positive as it should be, suggests that the tendering process is broken. Even in a time of economic recession, fewer businesses have considered Macedonia in their business strategy, and that is a loss to the country. At the same time, reports like the recent report you cited from the World Bank suggest that this is a place that business should look. If attention is paid to the other factors I mentioned, then business should be coming here.

I have been here a year, and it has been a difficult year in terms of the global economy. I spoke to a number of US businesses before I came and since I have been Ambassador, both those who have visited here and those who I have talked to in the States. As I mentioned in the previous answer, some of them have expressed some concerns about the challenges of doing business here. It is clear for many companies, some of them quite well-known, that Macedonia is working to attain its goal of NATO membership and EU membership. These are factors of stability and signals of confidence that business leaders look for – and that help make Macedonia more competitive in what is an ever more competitive business environment. We will continue our efforts to tell US investors that there are real opportunities in Macedonia, that we would welcome additional US investment because we believe it is good for a US company, good for the United States and good for Macedonia. But there have been instances where companies have been discouraged by vague bureaucratic requirements, by sometimes inflexible laws, and by corruption. Again, Macedonia is not alone in that, but an investor needs to see potential but also be aware of the risks. That is what the relevant government factors and the business community should focus on, to be more competitive to attract not just investors but other forms of commerce as well.

Our job, as the representative of the US Government, is to present to American companies, and American citizens, the opportunities but also to make clear the challenges. As I just said, we believe there are great opportunities here. That is why, over the past year, we have spent lot of time and energy, myself personally and my whole team, trying to encourage companies to invest in Macedonia. Yet global firms and American businesses do not turn towards the American government for advice. They may consult with me as the Ambassador, they may consult with my team and talk to the Commerce Department. But they especially talk to other business people, and the reputation and the experiences of a business are quickly transmitted to other business leaders. So it is important to constantly guard that reputation, to work very carefully and very closely, to make sure that each potential investor is courted and supported, and efforts are made to show them why they should invest in Macedonia.

Q: In which sectors have we seen the American investments here in Macedonia?

A: You can see a variety, Johnsons Controls, for example.  In franchising, we see smaller and medium investments, and in other areas we see Americans with ties to Macedonia , who have come back and made efforts to  build service sector businesses. I would like to see more US investment come here, but it is going to take a lot of work to attract them. There are other countries in the region and other places in the world that also offer attractive opportunities for investing.  That is what you are up against. So you have to make a case, show and demonstrate, and get the word out there. Not just on the basis of objective data, but on the basis of subjective experiences from other business leaders and what they have experienced. When businesses come here and feel they have really found a great environment in which to do business, the word will get out that Macedonia is a good place to do business. That is what you should focus on more than anything.

Q: Where do you see the main dangers and challenges for Macedonia?

A: I don’t know if that is really for me to say. We all face the same challenges by trying to focus on our security and our prosperity, and continuing the reforms that we discussed earlier on the road towards NATO and EU membership.  It is a hard work, it takes continuous effort – and you need to focus less on the politics of blame. We have invested a lot of resources through our USAID assistance programs.

Q: What is the impact of these assistance programs?  How do you evaluate the results?

A: We certainly look at the people who have been in our programs, who have studied in the United States. They make a big impact. I spend a lot of time reaching out to alumni. There have been many exchange visitors and I never have enough time to meet them all. Many entrepreneurs and many business people have studied in the United States – through our support, through US Government assistance – and they have come back and made a big difference. We are very proud of the fact that the return rate for those who are sent on programs sponsored by the US Government to study in the United States is almost 100 percent. There are some workplaces which are concerned that you may lose these people – that they might not come back. But we find that they do. They bring that understanding back to Macedonia and share their new knowledge and skills with their fellow citizens to build the future for Macedonia. That makes a big difference.

Q: How do you see the relationship between Macedonia and the United States?

A: I think we have very good relations. I said, just this week, we were very proud to join the rest of the international community - and more importantly, all of Macedonia's citizens - to celebrate the 18^th anniversary of Macedonia’s independence. It is still a young country, but 18 is a significant turning point, 18 means you are an adult and you have more responsibility. We have a very strong friendship, we have a partnership, and of course, partnership is a two-way thing, and that is important to keep in mind. How you treat your friends is something to always keep in mind, as well. We have strong relations across a range of fields. The new Embassy and the investment we have made is a strong symbol of all the things we work on together with Macedonia.

Q: What do you enjoy about Macedonia?

A:  I love this country, there is no doubt about that. I missed it very much when I left, so I was delighted to come back. At the top of the list would be the people, very friendly and fun.  And everybody knows I like Macedonian food way too much – I am struggling so that my suits do not get too tight. Then, the natural beauty of this country is wonderful and I love to share my experiences with others about that.

There are other things that frustrate me being here, I suppose there is a certain level of cynicism that comes with this politics of blame, and this partisanship that betrays a lack of confidence on the part of some people; the conspiracy theories for which the Balkans is known. It can be very frustrating. For instance, the claims that the news is written by the American Embassy. It is remarkable. I do not know what is sadder, whether the absurdity of a television station making such a claim or the disappointing fact that senior government officials seem to believe this. It exhibits such an unnecessary paranoia for the 21^st century. I think part of that stems from the fact that there is too much news in Macedonia. I am often reminded that my good friend and mentor, Chris Hill, said when we were here ten years ago, “There is so much history in the region, there is more history that can be consumed.”  I think, as well, that there is too much news and much of it is not new. That is a challenge and we see that particularly in the media sector.

Q: How do you see the situation in the media sector? There are months or years of complaints that there is pressure…

A: On one end there is too much focus on the news and the media. The role of the media in democracy is important to civil society and democratic transition in Macedonia. The United States has supported independent media like Kapital and like so many others. While we try to be open and available to journalists to talk about our policies and our programs, we recognize that Macedonia has an enormous number of media outlets. That is how you end up with some of these absurd claims. Some of the reporting is highly disappointing as well. There are certain media that do not check their facts. Some of the reporting about our Embassy for instance is like that. The rumors, the conspiracies and the outrageous stories about this Embassy are a perfect example of very poor reporting. For example, the idea of vast underground floors, and the fact that some people are certain there is a tunnel from here to Camp Bondsteel. The absurdity of it and the fact that people believe it, or the fact that senior government officials can be caught up in these paranoid conspiracies is frankly very disappointing.

Q:  What do you predict for Macedonia’s future?

A:   I don’t do real well on predictions.  If you would have asked me ten years ago, or five years ago that I would come back here as an Ambassador, I would have laughed. I do think Macedonia is at crossroads, and the future really depends on you, all of you, but particularly on the leaders. The leaders and the citizens together determine what your future will be like. It is not what the United States or some diplomats say or do. It all really depends on you. Will you embrace the multiethnic heritage that we discussed? Will you continue those reforms that will get you into NATO and the EU?  Will you focus on securing the best possible future of all the citizens of this country instead of arguing about the past? If the answer to those questions is yes, then I think we will see Macedonia as a country that can be not only a model for the region but also for the world. The people who are able to break the cycle of blame and extraordinary partisanship in Macedonia will be those who will stand out as the true leaders in successful, prosperous, secure Macedonia.